Well begun… Mr Modi

Who would have imagined the kind of Modi wave that has swept the country? That he has an unhampered mandate in the Lok Sabha of course augurs well for the country. But what augurs even better is the transformation of Modi into a near-statesman. His parliamentary speech could have ranked among the best that we may have heard in recent times from world leaders, Obama included, even if his electoral speeches were obviously pitched to the galleries. Each and every interview of his has been measured, judicious and wise, compelling one to believe that if Modi means what he is saying in the media, ‘achey din’ are certainly nigh!

True, Mr Modi stands exonerated by the SIT set up by the Supreme Court on the Godhra carnage. This should deflect much of political fire that he may have otherwise attracted. However, having spent my longest stint in life – nearly two decades – in Ahmedabad, with an abundance of friends there, I can say that the Ghost of Godhra is pretty much alive in many minds. Instances of some tenacious victimization of those, even academics, who dared point a finger at Modi aren’t entirely unknown. It is quite possible that such victimization was the doing of over-zealous underlings, and not necessarily of Modi himself. But be that as it may, Mr. Modi at least appears to have learnt some lessons and sobered up more than somewhat over these last few years. Whether his party has learnt some lessons, it is still too early to say, especially since the party is still in the euphoria of its honeymoon period, with the PM just sworn in and his ministerial team just getting into place. However, one fervently hopes his team will deliver, even if it appears more than a little thin on experience.

But Congress seems to be learning very little from its debacle. For its utter rout, Jairam Ramesh seems to believe his party did not manage ‘perceptions’ well! The party seems to believe their Ad agency, Dentsu, let them down, by not projecting ‘Rahul Gandhi as a young and dynamic leader out to empower the common man.’ It would have us believe that Modi and BJP’s electoral performance was primarily on account of their success in ‘preparing and successfully implementing a cohesive marketing and branding campaign’, as if their gross acts of commission and omission had no role to play in their rout.

In short, what these worthies believe is that it does not matter whether as a party you performed or not; it is irrelevant how corrupt you were or how indecisive; nor does it count that you brought down a perfectly functioning economy down from a 9% growth to a 5% one, with the inflation marching in the opposite direction. All that matters is how successful you are or are not in projecting a certain image of yourself before the public. In this understanding of politics, the public is an idiot who could have been had; except that Dentsu failed to deliver for the Rs. 600 crore it was paid to fool the masses. So what is the learning for the Congressmen from their debacle? No, it is not to control corruption, or to have better follow-up mechanisms for the performance of its Ministers, or to be more imaginative in delivering electoral promises, beyond populist gimmickry. Their learning is: Next time, get yourself a better ad agency; if necessary, pay them more. Performance does not matter. Only perception does, and an ad agency can and should be able to create any desired perception, never mind the reality of the product being advertised!

And what is AAP’s learning? Considering Arvind Kejriwal has been repeatedly bemoaning his mistake in having abdicated his responsibility in Delhi rather hastily, what has he learnt? Very little it seems. He is continuing to indulge in the very antics that lost him his public sympathy and is now losing him some of his high profile colleagues–whether Shazia Ilmi, Balakrishnan or Gopinath. But what is worse, he has ensured that for a long time, the very cause of anti-corruption would remain suspect in the eyes of the common man, for the aam admi will always wonder if anti-corruption platform is just another gambit for entering politics, so that once there, you play the same game as anybody else.

Well, history has given Modi and his party a rare mandate. Whether they capitalize on the opportunity to ensure they rule India for another ten or fifteen years at least is entirely their call. If they truly work for inclusivity, get necessary amendments to Lokpal Bill passed to make it truly effective, bring about judicial and police reforms and ensure a healthy and cleaner investment climate particularly in infrastructure, and give agriculture a strong fillip of productivity, BJP may well go down in history as the party that put India on a double digit growth path for the first time. There is no reason why it shouldn’t; and within two years at that. But let us remember, Rajiv Gandhi did have 415/543 seats in 1984 – the biggest-ever mandate of nearly 77% – much larger than BJP’s 282/543 this time – but Congress lost its power in 1989, thanks to the Bofors scam. If there is one bit of learning for the BJP, it is that it must avoid scams at any cost. Political and administrative probity will have to rank really high. Will it be too tall an order? Will Modi and his senior colleagues be able to control his inexperienced team and make it deliver? Will the hopes of the voters come true? Only time will tell.

Gujarat is a model of crony capitalism: #RAGA

The heat is on. Rahul Gandhi is facing it as India votes to elect its new parliament and a new government. In what is being called the Modi Wave, most opinion polls suggest the Congress party is heading for its worst defeat ever. In an exclusive interview to India Today Group's Javed M. Ansari, Rahul Gandhi says his party is low on marketing but scores high where it matters: the results.

You've been touring the country extensively. What is the response you have received so far?

Sonia and Rahul pose for us showing off their inked fingers to join our campaign.

The situation varies from state to state. The campaign is pretty good. The results should reflect this.

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Are you saying the exit polls are not reflecting the ground reality?

In 2004, the exit polls predicted Congress party would lose. There was so much talk about the India Shining marketing campaign. In 2009, they said the same.

But the results were contradictory. The marketing is good. The BJP knows how to market itself. But in the end, the result will speak for itself.

 If the BJP's marketing is good. Why hasn't the Congress party been able to replicate it? Did the Congress fail at marketing? You've been in power for 10 years, but this election has become Modi-centric.

Look, the Congress vote base primarily consists of the poor. The BJP vote base consists of corporates. As a result, their marketing abilities are better. Our ability to get results, our programmes, our ability to establish direct contact with the people is better. Generally, in every campaign, they are able to generate more noise. Examine any BJP campaign, they are high on noise, but the results speak otherwise. If you ask psephologists, they will also agree with this view point that the bias towards the Congress is strong. That the poor, the weak prefer to vote for the Congress party.

So you're saying that you are confident of Congress getting majority?

We should get a majority. But ours is an ideological fight. There are two ideologies. We believe in empowering as many people as possible. We talk about decentralisation. We talk about giving people their right. They (BJP) believe in concentration of power. They want maximum power to be vested in one person and that's how the entire country should be run. The philosophical approach is very different. If you look at the Congress's achievements, they would be instances of when the people have been empowered. This has been a trend since the freedom movement. During the freedom movement, people were empowered. During the Green Revolution, the people were empowered. During the Telecom Revolution, we gave them the power. And now, with the rights-based paradigm, we have empowered the people. Our objective is that the country should be run by as many people as possible.

When you talk about empowering the people, I feel you are talking about welfare programmes.

No. I'm not talking about welfare alone. I'm talking about a support system. There should be progress, we must develop the country, roads should be built, schools and colleges should be built. But the poor in this country need a basic launch pad. The poor cannot sustain on roads. A poor man needs a minimum support base. That's why we repeatedly talk about basic rights. That's the reason we talk about right to food, right to employment. Once the poor get a launch pad, they can take off. In Uttar Pradesh, I have worked a lot with the poor. And if a person is below the poverty line, then to take off, without support, is very difficult. This is the difference.

We want a partnership to exist between the poor and the business class in this country. Both must co-exist and work together. Their (BJP) thinking is that the entire focus should be on three or four industrialists and everything else will automatically be sorted out. They believe in the trickle-down effect. In the US also, they tried the trickle-down system. If you read that literature, you will know this trickle-down effect failed.

Some people believe that your developmental model does not have a connect with the aspirational class, does not resonate with the youth of the country. Now, you are a young leader yourself. Why do you think this disconnect exists? What do you offer them? Because apart from talk of empowerment, they want jobs, progress, basic amenities like roads.

We have a two-pronged approach. We have developed this to a great degree. If you examine statistics of number of roads built, power generation, water, etc, the Congress has fared better than the NDA government. They talk about roads, but we have built three times the number of roads they claim to have built. This is the reality across the country. If you like, you can check this. We are talking about a manufacturing corridor from Delhi to Mumbai, Mumbai to Chennai, Chennai to Bangalore and from Delhi to Kolkata. We are building a manufacturing backbone. Roads, power, water, a dedicated freight corridor. We are collaborating with Japan. We are trying  to build the backbone of this country on the basis of manufacturing. Crores will find employment. Today everything is 'Made in China'. We want to change that to 'Made in India'. And we are doing that. We believe that you build infrastructure, but if the human resources are not prepared, then what is the point? Where is our pool of human resources? In the villages, in rural India, among the poor. If you haven't prepared them, then what can possibly happen later?

Would you agree that the discourse this election has become Modi-centric? He's talking about the Gujarat model. You are talking about something else. All the development work that you said the Congress party is responsible for, why do you think the message is not going out to the public?

Reality is we have been in government for the last 10 years. You cannot change that. That by itself is a huge achievement. After the Nehru government, the Manmohan Singh government has enjoyed the longest tenure. I cannot dispute the fact that there will be some sense of anti-incumbency. The anti-incumbency factor is a given. But, in the last 10 years, I spoke of human resources, 15 crore people have been uplifted, they are now above the poverty line. They are part of our country's human resource. I believe that we have given people their rights, built roads, constructed airports, so we have improved the lives of a lot of people. I think that will benefit us.

Congress vice-president Rahul Gandhi believes he has nothing personal against BJP PM nominee Narendra Modi.

But Modi says the same. He says look at the Gujarat model. We have ensured 24-hour water supply, power, connectivity, world-class roads, investment. Why is it that apart from the primary message they espouse, a lot of people are believing in the Gujarat model?

Look, Gujarat first stood on its feet on the basis of small businesses. Amul, the co-operative movement, is what Gujarat draws its strength from. Let's look at the Gujarat model. One man, whose business turnover, 10 years ago, was Rs.3,000 crore is Rs.40,000 crore today.

You are talking about Adani?

I don't want to take names. He's worth Rs.40,000 crore. How did this happen? Land the size of Vadodara was given to him. Are you aware at what cost? For Rs.300 crore. Land the size of Vadodara was handed to him. You know the length of the Mumbai coastline. Coastline the length of the Mumbai coastline was given to him. Now, you talk about the state. Textile industry is finished. I have interacted with diamond cutters of Gujarat. They are perishing. Their children are dying of hunger. The farmers are crying. The state has maximum labour disputes. But, there is marketing. They come on TV and talk. So, this is the reality of the Gujarat model. Favour two or three industrialists. It's very simple. Can you name any other industrialists in Gujarat?

Rahul, surely you are aware that your government faces the very same charges that you are making against the Gujarat model. Charges of crony capitalism and corruption. How do you answer that charge?

Corruption is India's reality. But if we have to combat corruption, then we have to stop talking and start acting. How will that change happen? With institutional framework, not rhetoric. You read the BJP manifesto. They say they will fight against corruption. But point me to where they specify their strategy. What will they do to act against corruption? The biggest achievement in this direction, and I have contributed to it, has been the Right to Information (RTI) Act. You are a journalist. You can ask any question, go to any office, fill an RTI application and ask questions. You can even go into the Prime Minister's Office with the power of your pen. We have given you this power. Corruption has been exposed because of this. We brought the Lokpal Bill. Where does the maximum corruption take place? In land deals. We brought the Land Acquisition Bill. Earlier what used to happen is that thousands of acres, like it happens in Gujarat, used to be handed over to an individual with just one signature. Now, that cannot happen. We have taken some major steps towards eradicating corruption. And, these are institutional steps. The difference lies in walking the talk.

Your critics say there is a contradiction in what you say and what you do. You intervened, blocked the ordinance (against entry of criminals into parliament). But then you went and forged a deal with Lalu Prasad. Do you not think you should have intervened a long time ago and with much more force?

Like I told you, I intervened during RTI. I was not at the forefront, I stayed in the background. When Lokpal was being discussed, I spoke about a constitutional amendment. A constitutional Lokpal would be stronger than the Lokpal Bill we have passed. The one that has been passed is institutional, a body like the Election Commission. Take MNREGA, for instance. What used to happen was that there were several schemes. Every scheme bred its own share of corruption. We took all those schemes and centralised them. We took all those schemes and made them one. This was also an anti-corruption measure. If you look at Right to Food, it's a reformed version of the PDS. I'm on the job. And most of what I have achieved has been with the Youth Congress and NSUI with slow, small steps. Look, if you are serious about weeding out corruption, you should know it's going to be a long battle, not a small fight. I've been on the job and I will continue to be on it. I think that if you want to emerge victorious, you will have to change the political parties. The solution will emerge from doing that.

How? How do we change political parties?

I'll explain. We elect the Lok Sabha and the state assemblies. About 700 representatives in parliament and more than 4,000 across the state assemblies. These are the people who run the country. These people make all the laws. How many people chose them? Who chose the candidate? Ten people in the BJP, another 10-15 people in the Congress party. Another one or two people in Mulayam Singh's party. In Mayawati' party, one person. Till you don't open up the choice of candidates, till you don't give the power to the hundreds, thousands of people to choose their candidate, till then this framework will remain closed. And this is the central point. Modi says I will make all the decisions. Today, hundreds of people are choosing candidates. He (Modi) says I will choose all the candidates. We say no. Crores of people should have the power to decide. That's why we speak of the primaries system.

You started the primaries system, but in Vadodara one man was chosen, but another appointed to contest the election.

I want to first tell you a little about the primary system, explain what it is all about. In modern democracy, let's talk about Western democracies that are a little more advanced when it comes to representation. When a candidate is chosen there, like in the case of Obama, lakhs of people chose the candidate. Here, a decision like that is taken behind closed doors. The primary is all about changing that. Earlier, 15 candidates were chosen by a handful of people. Now, 15 candidates are chosen by 12,000 people. Association members, Congress party workers, block president, district president, women's wing president. Fifteen candidates are chosen by 12,000 people. I want a day to come when Congress party's decisions are not taken by Rahul Gandhi, but by hundreds and thousands of people. This will empower people. That's how we will fight corruption. Earlier, a district magistrate used to decide everything. The residents of that village would raise an objection but the district magistrate would overrule them. The Panchayati Raj system was introduced. It challenged the authority of the district magistrate and things moved forward. Let me come to Vadodara. What happened is, one young man from the Congress stood as candidate and won the primary, but the other main contender said I want to fight the election from Vadodara. The chosen candidate, the young leader admitted that prestige was at stake in this election and said that if the Congress party wants some other candidate to stand from this seat, I will step aside. Don't judge the idea on the basis of one anomaly. It's a big idea that has caught the imagination of the Congress party. Our workers are charged up. And if you speak to Youth Congress workers, if you talk to Mahila Congress workers, they will acknowledge the system as a success. I want every Indian to enjoy that feeling of being represented. You should also feel that you participated in the process through which your candidate was chosen.

Will there be a primary now for the post of Congress president and vice-president?

Primary is a process. Don't confuse the idea with the process.

This is a democratic step that you have initiated, but a lot of your admirers, several in your party believe that it is ahead of its time. In 2014, how will this be effective? How will it stop Narendra Modi?

What are you doing for 2014? We've seen you campaign and you have raised the aggression and the fight has become personal.

No, the fight has not become personal. Narendra Modi is a personality whose personal issues I'm not interested in. But he represents an ideology. The ideology he represents is to make one community fight with another. This ideology is dangerous for India. My fight is against that ideology. Now, in Gujarat he has his own economic ideas. I told you my opinion on those economic ideas. For one or two or three people to be entrusted with the entire country's wealth is dangerous. This is what I fight against. I'm not interested in personal attacks and I don't veer into that area.

The ideology that you refer to, your allies like the Samajwadi Party have been criticised for endorsing. Take for example, Mulayam Singh's and Azam Khan's recent comments. How can you continue to work with them?

Listen, we are fighting with the Samajwadi Party. It's the same fight that we have against the BJP.

It's an ideological fight?

We are challenging them in UP. We don't have a partnership with the Samajwadi Party. Look, any kind of fundamentalism is dangerous for India. Our country progresses only when there is communal harmony. We have governed for 10 years now. There is a debate about growth rate. We have delivered a high rate of growth. We have built roads, we have generated adequate power, we lifted 15 crore people above the line of poverty. We have delivered on both counts. There is no marketing, there is no glitz. But programmess, information, to understand the people's pain, the Congress knows how to do that.

You've been influencing decisions. A lot of people say you should've joined the government earlier. That the issues you are pressing on would have received more attention. Do you want to come to power? Do you want to be the prime minister?

If you read our constitution, it says the prime minister will be chosen by members of parliament. This is what our constitution says. What we see nowadays, a prime ministerial candidate, is not really constitutional. MPs choosing a PM after the elections is constitutional. If our MPs choose me, then I will not back down from taking on the responsibility. But, the people have not voted yet. If I say, at this point, that I want to be prime minister, it would amount to me disrespecting the people of this country. In a way, I'm a servant to the country and I work for the people of the country and I respect them.

The biggest charge against you is that the economy went downhill. That from 9 per cent our growth rate came down to 5 per cent. If you come to power again, how will you address this issue?

This is all marketing glitz. The truth is that we have, in our 10 years, delivered a much higher growth rate as compared to the five years that the NDA was in power. At the end of the day, there has been a global recession and it has caused a slowdown in India as well. But, if you compare, we have fared a lot better than the BJP. And this is the reality. People of India are aware of it. The business class needs to understand that we will move ahead with this partnership. Only when there is a partnership between the common man and industry leaders, will the nation move ahead. If you focus only on the poor and forget the business class, we will not progress. If you focus only on the businessmen and forget the poor, we will not progress. And this partnership can be forged only with mutual understanding. It cannot be forced. And this is our aim. We talk about the manufacturing corridor, we talk about roads, we talk about power, but in the same breath, we talk about the poor as well. Some say, we are not getting trained people. But where will you get these trained workers from? It is the poor people who have to be trained. If you want to develop a resource pool that consists of only those who are below the poverty line, then who will work in your factories? Who will run your computers? So, this is our thought process. And the truth is that India's future is optimistic. We are moving ahead with a good pace. The rest of the world is in shutdown mode. China is Number 1, India is number 2. If we are tolerant and work with everyone, I guarantee that we will, in the next 5-6 years, leave China behind. And if we fight, if Hindus and Muslims fight, if the rich and poor fight, if a Maharashtrian fights with a person from UP, then this growth that we are talking about will fall flat.

We've visited Amethi, our Election Express is in Amethi right now. People there complain there is no power, roads are bad and you are the sitting MP from there.

In Uttar Pradesh, the Samajwadi Party runs the state government. Roads, schools, electricity are responsibilities of the Samajwadi Party. We have constructed the national highways. The Central government in Delhi has done a lot in that regard. We have done a lot of work for and with women in Amethi. We have opened bank accounts for over 10-12 lakh women and it has changed their lives. But UP does not have a Congress government and that is the reality. This is why the people suffer. This is a fact that we will have to accept.

Thank you for talking to us. This is a very crucial phase in the elections and you are playing a pivotal role. We will speak to you next after May 16th.

Power resides with a chosen few. We want to decentralise it to include the youth in the Congress party and to empower you. Power should rest with the people who live in rural India. This is my life's mission. For me, there is no difficult time. Come what may, this is my job, I will continue to do it. And I will succeed, you wait and watch.

Irrespective of the result, you will continue to work...

For me, the result will be to give power to the people. For the last 10 years, we have been empowering people and will continue to do so in the next 10 years as well.

One question I just have to ask and a lot of the young people want to know the answer to this.

You are smiling. What kind of question is up your sleeve?

There is a category in the nomination form that asks you to specify your matrimonial status. Do you get any time for yourself and when will you fill in the blanks on that form?

When I find the right girl, it'll get filled. I don't get too much time. I need to work, travel. But it's all in our destiny.